MyDD :: What, in effect, Hillary is doing

What, in effect, Hillary is doing

by Casuist, Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:02:42 PM EST

...is speaking for her constituency, and I'd never begrudge her doing so. They've chosen her for their voice and it's her privilege to take the role. She told them tonight that they won't be ignored... and I agree wholeheartedly that they should not "disappear" from the stage and from their driving force in the party.

I say that, in part, because this is about those people, as well as those of us voted for Obama, rather than being about the candidates.

I also say that because both constituencies will, soon, feel that this is our party. That was what we - as Democrats - were facing regardless of the end of this primary. I still find it odd to say those words - as I did not identify as a Democrat until quite recently. In Washington State I felt I was an independent, not thinking either party could reflect my interests. I still feel that way, in a sense, because I think the system reduces my choices... but that resentment isn't changed by excluding myself from the system. The only way the party works for us is if we work within it to ensure it speaks for us.

So... for those contrasting the "grace" of the speeches tonight: stop.

For those who regret the results of this primary: this is not only a person but also a party and a platform we take forward into November, and that CANNOT exclude you unless you choose otherwise.

For me: this is the most I've ever identified with my party... perhaps even the most I've ever identified with my country.

In the coming week we'll all decide how best to make this work.

Tags: 2008 Elections (all tags)

Permalink :: 49 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: What, in effect, Hillary is doing (2.00 / 1)

I agree. Clinton clearly demonstrated with tonight's speech that she is demanding that her constituency be treated with respect...end of story...and she will fight for that respect in the same fashion that she fought for the nomination.

by Liberty on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:06:57 PM EST

Re: What, in effect, Hillary is doing (none / 0)

The only people who think that the "party is throwing them away" are Hillary supporters... the Obama camp is working and fighting for the same supporters that Hillary has...

It's a ridiculous and divisive idea that Hillary is throwing out there.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry - but i think that a sizable bit of HER (2.00 / 2)

supporters would disagree with you.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:27:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sorry - but i think that a sizable bit of HER (2.00 / 1)

Unfortunately, because Obama very much stands for the people she also claims to stand for. And who has convinced those supporters that only she can represent them?

Well, Rome wasn't built in a day.

by mattw on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:47:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sorry - but i think that a sizable bit of HER (none / 0)

Exactly... She's convinced her supporters that they are being "thrown out" of the party which is ridiculous!

It's time for a change... Democrats have sucked for so long, even under the Clintons (remember, we lost congress), that we have a great opportunity for transformation... you're not going to get that with a legacy candidate. That doesn't mean anyone is getting "thrown out"... but, that divisiveness helped her campaign, so she pushed it, to the party's detriment.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:52:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

she hasn't (2.00 / 3)

convinced them. you, BO and the media have.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:57:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she hasn't (none / 0)

What did Obama and the media do to convince Hillary supporters they weren't wanted?

by mattw on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:59:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

discarded you mean? (2.00 / 2)

well a couple of examples... BO threw around constantly that her voters would vote for him, but his not so much. the media consistently minimized her and tried to force her out.... please understand that she was their representative in the race and how this was perceived.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:05:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

from an objective viewpoint... (none / 0)

BO threw around constantly that her voters would vote for him, but his not so much.

From an objective viewpoint can you seriously contend that Obama does not beat Clinton among independents? He's consistently shown strength in that demographic even in states he's lost. His initial demographics as defined by political ideology were, in all fairness, broader than Clinton's.

by Casuist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:12:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: discarded you mean? (none / 0)

How many times did Obama say that? "Constantly"? Once, or twice, really? And to say that he believes he can earn the votes of her primary supporters and the opposite is not true is based on the simple fact that more of her supporters were partisan Democrats. It's not a huge stretch to think the Democratic nominee is more likely to capture Democrat votes than Independents. That's not saying they're discarded. He's the champion of their causes.

I think the only way you can say Obama is discarding anyone is viewed through a lens placed by Hillary's rhetoric.

by mattw on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: discarded you mean? (none / 0)

And she said that HER voters wouldn't vote for him, and kept on bringing up exit polls to prove it!

Disunity is a two way street.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry no. (2.00 / 1)

exit polls said this - not HER.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:30:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

politely, and with respect... (none / 0)

Obama has done jack shit to alienate Clinton's constituency. The media and the public in general have had incidents of sexism and boorishness just as they exhibit other uncomplimentary traits.

I find it difficult to say as I've spent months identifying their few differences... but on policy issues - when viewed with respect to the american political spectrum - Clinton and Obama are very, very close.

...and their differences should not exclude any demographic that identifies with Clinton.

by Casuist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:05:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

agree with everything but that he didnt alienate. (2.00 / 3)

and identity-politics on both sides is partly to blame. nice diary btw.

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:20:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you... (2.00 / 1)

and thank you for commenting!

by Casuist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:29:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Amen, Canadian Girl. (2.00 / 2)

You said exactly what I was thinking when I read that comment.

by georgiapeach on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:30:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

tips... (2.00 / 4)

if you feel like it. Clinton is leveraging and given that her supporters (rightly) feel like they deserve leverage: let her. We will have a unified party that's worth a bit of a wait.

I would only ask that that powerful constituency cease disrespecting that popular majority that has chosen a nominee to speak on both our parts...

by Casuist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:07:17 PM EST

except of course yesterday (2.00 / 1)

her every word to her supporters were begrudged, and demean and spun and used as bludgeons with deliberate mis-quotes and "she as much as said" that I for one will always consider the worst offenders here and other blogs as nothing more then McBloggers or other types of trolls.

by zerosumgame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tips... (2.00 / 1)

I hear what you are saying but i must admit i'm begining to show a little impatience with clinton. She has not given any real indication that she is willing to try and unite the party. For a long time we have been hearing how obama has to reach out and win over clinton supporters. However he can't do that without senator clinton herself cooperating. As much as i love the idea of unity, i face the reality that that may never happen.
Fortunately george bush is on the other side which means just might still be hope regardless of how self destructive our party continues to be.

Elections 2008 Best reality show ever!!!

by kbal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

her inclinations... (none / 0)

She's made some indications towards unity, disregarding what you or I might hope they would be (i.e. I wasn't happy with her speech either). Her inclinations aren't of paramount importance. I honestly believe that the vast majority of us will be on the same side in a very short time... just as we were 16 months ago.

by Casuist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:00:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary will only grow weaker (1.80 / 5)

Her followers will know soon that Hillary is not going to be president no matter what else happens. Few in the end will chose to go down with the ship.

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:07:45 PM EST

Re: Hillary will only grow weaker (2.00 / 1)

TR'd for shitting over this diary and the message.

by colebiancardi on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary will only grow weaker (2.00 / 2)

Troll rating means "abuse", not "I disagree". Sam Wise disagrees with the poster and said so. That's not abuse. If you so desire, you can argue the point with him, but the moderators have removed people's rec/rate privileges for incorrect use of the troll function.

I disagree that Hillary grow progressively weaker (her base is too strong), but I'm mojo'ing to remove the troll karma (or whatever metric is used for TU) hit.

by TCQuad on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary will only grow weaker (2.00 / 1)

yup ~ i gave some mojo as well.

by pholkhero on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is no Hillary consituiency now (none / 0)

unless you want two parties.

You Clinton supporters have a decision to make whether you like it or not, either the democratic party will split or unite.

If it is to unite there can only be one nominee, Obama. Hillary will not be the nominee of the Democratic party. The primary process is over, the pledged delegates have been selected and super delegates have made commitments.

It's over whether Hillary concedes or not.

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:21:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is no Hillary consituiency now (2.00 / 2)

This HRC supporter will vote for Obama.

I thought your comment unnecessary for the tone of this diary. I am sure you could have placed it somewhere else, but instead, you chose to put it on a nice, positive diary.

stay classy.

by colebiancardi on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:24:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sam... (none / 0)

you and I agree 95% of the time or so... I even agree with 95% or so of you posts here... but constituencies choose their own. Obama is the nominee... nothing can be done to change that. I honestly believe that, soon, Clinton will bring her supporters on board. What she is doing is ensuring her interests, and theirs, in the process. If she ceases to look out for their interests, that will change... and I believe a convention fight or even a fight lasting beyond this week is NOT in their interests. We'll see. I was never relying on a concession tonight.

by Casuist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sam... (none / 0)

There is nothing positive about what Hillary is doing now.

Even Huckabee was smart enough to recognize his party's nominee.

Hillary is acting as if Obama does not have the majority delegates and the contest has not been decided.

Thumbing your nose at the party, its processes and its decisions are negatives and destructive to party ends and causes.

If Hillary means to have her own party let her do so. If she means to stay in this one then she is obligated to contribute to its unity.

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:21:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, as a former Reagan Democrat, (2.00 / 3)

let me say that if you keep telling me what I should do you can bet that I will choose the path that goes against you. Why don't you just shut your mouth? I have yet to hear anything worthwhile from it.

by lombard on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:49:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, as a former Reagan Democrat, (none / 0)

No sense appealing to party loyalty with you eh?

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My first pres vote was for JC in 1976 (2.00 / 1)

Since that time, Reagan is the only Republican I voted for president. I've voted a couple of times for moderate Republican governors and congressmen where I had lived over the years. I have never voted for a Republican for Senate.

If you can match my record over 32 years, then you can talk to me about party loyalty. If not, I don't care to listen.

by lombard on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My first pres vote was for JC in 1976 (none / 0)

As a matter of fact I have voted more consistently Democratic than you have, but that is not the issue.

The issue is whether or not Hillary and her supporters have an obligation to party unity.

Party unity may not be high on your list but you can believe it is high on the list of those who serve as delegates to the convention.

The reason you were a Reagan Democrat was because the Democratic party either could not or would not unite around Jimmy Carter in 1980.

Now that the voters have had their say, the delegates will have theirs and they will sympathize most with the one who they believe will promote party unity.

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:04:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, as a former Reagan Democrat, (2.00 / 2)

Why would anyone allow their actions to be dictated by an anonymous blogger on mydd.com?

"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."

by fugazi on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:18:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good question (2.00 / 1)

by lombard on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:34:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

if so... (none / 0)

then that's going to be he supporters' decision that they can be heard more effectively in some other manner. She's not the nominee, and barring catastrophe or tragedy she's won't be the nominee but in the meantime if they choose her to speak for them in calling for universal health care, by way of example... more power to them. That's a worthy cause, and we will all be calling on Obama to achieve it for us in common... and Obama is our best hope for our success.

by Casuist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:18:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go down with what ship? (2.00 / 1)

There are many in this party who argue that those supporting Obama will be doing just that in November..

by lombard on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

16 months ago.... (none / 0)

he was one of ours, and I hope that nothing's changed in terms of what we will work to accomplish.

by Casuist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:53:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go down with what ship? (none / 0)

Like it or not Obama is our nominee. You can either support him and do all you can to get him elected or defect from the party as far as electing the next president is concerned.

If Obama should lose then you will have every right to a big "I told you so" as you suffer through Bush's third term.

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:32:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What effect, Hillary is doing (2.00 / 3)

I agree with this diary.

Her run has been historic, just as Obama's has been.

never saw such a tight race; never saw it come down to the wire like this before.

and they both have energeized the base - look how many people voted - and all the states involved - lots of people vested in this primary.

good for democrats overall.

by colebiancardi on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:10:05 PM EST

Re: What, in effect, Hillary is doing (2.00 / 2)

I tend to argee. Her voice carries the weight of 17+ million voters, most of whom Obama will need, and there is a point to be made that, as many people as voted for Obama, an amazingly equal amount voted for her (and some for other candidates).

She didn't congratulate him for crossing that delegate threshold...but she CAN'T do that if she wants to negotiate. So, she sent the right messages by talking about her FRIEND Barack Obama and the honor of running this campaign. I've seen a few who are upset with her speech, but I have no problems with it.

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:41:33 PM EST

Re: What, in effect, Hillary is doing (none / 0)

You can't plea bargain after the jury reaches its verdict. If Hillary wanted to negotiate she is too late. The whole world knows Obama is the Democratic nominee and Hillary thinks she can negotiate a concession. The longer Hillary choses to delay her concession the more foolish she looks, and more presidential Obama will be in contrast.

Obama now has the majority and a 226 delegate lead that most expect to grow over the next few weeks. By convention time it will be 300 or more. It will be even more if Hillary continues to loose super delegates to Obama as a protest of Hillary's disrespect to the Democratic party.

With each passing day Hillary will be less and less relevant to this race as even her most ardent supporters reconcile with the fact that Hillary won't be elected president in 2008.

There are no more primaries and unless Hillary says or does something negative, she won't get covered. All eyes will be on Obama. If Hillary thinks the media was unfair to her before then she ain't seen nothing yet.

Hillary will be in a fight with the Democratic Party and Obama will be a fight with McCain.

Obama is smart to let Hillary delay in her decision. The more she delays the less relevant she will be and more her support will erode and the less concession he will have to make to her.

We shall overcome. Yes we can.

by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:51:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you really not understand (none / 0)

that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are the only two people who have any chance to unite the party at this point? Neither one of them can do it alone, it's going to take them both. Barack Obama can make all the overtures he wants. Hillary can either convince her supporters to accept them, or she can sit on her hands. Do you really think she has no leverage?

by georgiapeach on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:43:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, Casuist, I know you mean well, but, (2.00 / 3)

unlike you, this is the least that I've identified with the party in over 30 years.

by lombard on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:43:00 PM EST

and to that i say... (2.00 / 1)

"good..." so long as you work to make it better. No one is throwing anyone out after this primary... and we should all be proud... even the Gravel supporter(s)... of what this primary accomplished in terms of involvement.

...and thank you for commenting

...and I apologize for being unconvincing.

by Casuist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You weren't unconvincing. (2.00 / 1)

Not at all arrogant or snarky, either. If you were, I would have insulted you like one of the yo-yos upthread. But, when it comes to your sentiments, I will just have to give that old line at this point in time, "It's not you. It's me."

by lombard on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll refrain from saying... (none / 0)

"give it time"... and say, instead, that presently I hope my opinion doesn't change as very well might happen in the interim -- and that yours does. If I can help you with that, let me know (or vice versa).

...as an amusing anecdote... I believe I write well enough. I am constantly regretful that I only made a few calls on Obama's behalf because I am a bad speaker in front of strangers.

by Casuist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:06:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's hard to believe because you do write well (none / 0)

by lombard on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:11:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks! (2.00 / 1)

I've had a speech impediment that's largely been overcome... but I still have rather blatant hesitations whenever my head gets ahead of my mouth.

Whenever a politician gets criticized for "um" in debates it's amusing- I have a visceral reaction against the critique even with Bush for chrissake.

..of course Bush's problem isn't just an inability to speak with great vocal ability, it's an inability to speak the truth whether he knows it or not.

by Casuist on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:22:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What, in effect, Hillary is doing (2.00 / 2)

Hillary wants the VP slot. That's what her speech tonight was about. I do think she would have done better to congratulate Obama for winning the nomination.

"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."

by fugazi on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:13:00 AM EST

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