Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED AGAIN

Cross-posted at Clintonistas for Obama.

From Real Clear Politics:

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I've been criticized a great deal for reporting bad polling data. There's an assumption that I revel in it and blog the data because I am a bitter Clintonista who hasn't gotten over Hillary's loss. My assurances that I am supporting Obama have often been ignored as certain people here insisted I was cherry-picking bad news to report. I've been told:
"Get over it, dead-ender!"
"The primaries are over!"
"Bitter much?"
"You want him to lose!"
"Go back to NoQuarter!"

To those who doubt my sincerity, I ask, "How do you explain this data?"

Either:
(a) RCP is a bitter pro-Clinton organization, OR
(b) some of you need to take off the rose-colored glasses, stop attacking the bearers of bad news, and realize that this election is not going to be a cakewalk.

I want Obama to win, and when I see people high-fiving one another for a landslide that hasn't happened yet, I'm going to call them out on it. I'm going to point out potential weaknesses. It's not because I don't want him to win. It's because I'm a gay American without equal rights, a graduate student with crappy health insurance, and the son of union parents who saw Republicans use the government to weaken union workers.

I NEED him to win. I can't afford for him to lose, no matter how upset I may be about the primaries. So please stop attacking the bearers of bad news and start focusing your energy toward what is important: Victory in November!

Updated at 9:45pm EST by Psychodrew

Since so many people were insisting that 538.com knows everything, I paid a visit. And guess what I saw:

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From 538.com

Our popular vote projection shows a literal tie, with each of Barack Obama and John McCain projected to earn 48.5 percent of the vote, and third-party candidates receiving a collective 3 percent.

Things get confusing, however, when looking at the electoral college. We project Obama to earn slightly more electoral votes on average. However, we also project John McCain to win the election slightly more often. What accounts for the discrepancy? Obama's wins tend to be larger, and McCain's tend to be smaller. If Obama wins this election by between 7 or 10 points, there are very few high-EV states that he won't be able to put into play; even something like Texas is probably winnable. If McCain were to win by that margin, on the other hand, he would still almost certainly lose New York, he would almost certainly lose Illinois, and he would almost certainly lose California. Those states represent 107 electoral votes that are essentially off-limits to McCain, even on his very best days.

But when the election is close -- and this is the case that we really care about -- McCain has appeared to develop a slight advantage in the electoral math. There are several states on our map that are colored light pink, meaning that they tip very slightly to the Republicans; these include Colorado, Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Montana and Nevada, in each of which Obama has better than a 25 percent chance of winning, but less than a 50 percent chance. There are a fairly large number of scenarios, then, where Obama comes tantalizingly close to a victory, but loses several different battleground states by mere points or fractions thereof. This dynamic is fairly fluid, however, and if Obama were able to get a toehold somewhere like Colorado or Virginia, it could quickly reverse itself.

Who's going to break the news to Poblano that he is a bitter, dead-ender McPuma troll?

Updated at 1:35pm EST by Psychodrew

Since I'm the bearer of bad news today. I just read this in the LA Times:

John McCain has begun rallying dispirited Republicans behind him, while Democratic rival Barack Obama has made scant progress building new support, leaving the presidential race statistically tied, according to a new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll.

The survey highlights Obama's vulnerability on the question of his readiness to lead the nation. Less than half of the registered voters polled think the first-term Illinois senator has the "right" experience to be president, while 80% believe McCain, a four-term senator, does.

SNIP

In a head-to-head matchup, Obama holds a narrow edge over McCain, 45% to 43%, which falls within the margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. (In June, Obama was ahead by 12 points in the Times/Bloomberg poll, but other surveys at the time showed him with a narrower lead.)

More striking, however, is the drop in Obama's favorable rating. It has slid from 59% to 48% since the June poll. At the same time, his negative rating has risen from 27% to 35%. The bulk of that shift stems from Republicans souring on Obama amid ferocious attacks on the Democrat by McCain and his allies.



Display:


Tips/flames (2.00 / 5)

We have to run scared!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:01:55 PM EST

BREAKING - GREAT NEWS for McSAME!! (2.00 / 5)

Wednesday's Gallup: Obama 45 McSame 43

For all the slashing and burning McSame has done, he still can't crack the mid-40s ceiling.

We now return you to your regularly soap opera, "The  Sky Is Falling."


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:22:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh Al (2.00 / 3)

This reminds me of all the times that I was told, "National polls don't matter.  The popular vote doesn't matter.  It's the electoral college, stupid."

But I would never say that to you.  ;)


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:31:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But I'm not wearing any pantz!! (2.00 / 1)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:46:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's hot! (2.00 / 2)

Do you realize that I'm not going to see my boyfriend for another FOUR MONTHS.

Don't say things like that to me when I'm on my way to the school library!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING - GREAT NEWS for McSAME!! (2.00 / 1)

I had to mojo that hilarious comment!

:)


Can I Haz More Palin?
by reebus on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's a tip... be useful. (2.00 / 2)

Contribute!

Everything else is just hand wringing.


by Pragmatic Left on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's a tip... be useful. (2.00 / 4)

Yep... contribute.

Not just money, but time.  Not just time, but your mouth.

Got friends or family who are supporting McCain?  Be Obama's attack dog!  Get the evidence and demonstrate to those you know that John McCain is a man without honor, without character, without integrity.  Point out John McCain's 90%-with-Bush voting record, his more-of-the-same plan for the economy and Iraq, his opposition to women's rights and clear disdain for the women in his life.  The Obama campaign isn't on the attack, but that doesn't mean we aren't.

If John McCain is elected, it's not only because of Barack Obama, but because of his supporters; we need to make sure that nobody we know is supporting McCain without knowing what he really stands for.

Contribute.  But don't just contribute money.  Even the most frosty-toward-Obama former Clinton supporters can agree that John McCain is not worthy of the position of President.  Attack, attack, attack.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Sky Is Falling! (none / 0)

I trust fivethirtyeight more, and although they now have things much closer, they still show Obama at 281.4


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I truest fivethirtyeight more too. (2.00 / 2)

For one thing, the states are shaded rather than solid red and solid blue.  

There's no way CO is a red state.  I'm in rural CO and we have a very active group of Obama volunteers canvassing and phonebanking here.  There is lots of enthusiasm.  McCain has zip.  Also, this tri-county area was evenly split between Dems and Reps but is slowly shifting Dem.  Between the shift in registration, the new registration efforts and the GOTV efforts the Dems will win here.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My relatives were from Colorado (2.00 / 1)

way, way back when.

Sold dry goods on a wagon, sort of deal. Heck of a thing to do just coming off a boat! ;-)

Glad to hear that Colorado's rarin' to go!

(here in da Burgh they're running GOTV at the local college Orientation. Maybe they'll be good enough to get another 1000 voters in two days. well, one can hope)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

CO (2.00 / 4)

RCP is shading CO red because McCain is ahead by one-half of a percentage point when averaging four polls, and in three of those four, Obama is ahead.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CO (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, that "no toss up" map is worthless.

Here is it with tossups.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=5


by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That presents a much clearer picture. (none / 0)

And since Obama is slightly ahead in many of those tossups, it presents a more optimistic picture. I'm pretty sure Obama will win this one but after the shrub managed to pull it off in 2004 I worry, like I'm sure most of us do.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That presents a much clearer picture. (none / 0)

He wasn't ahead in those toss-up states yesterday when that map was created.  That's why when those states were forced into a category--Obama or McCain--McCain ended up with the lead.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It doesn't present a very true picture if the lead (none / 0)

is within the margin of error.  If McCain is suddenly +1 in CO when Obama has been leading +1, it still makes CO a tossup.

I've spent a certain amount of time on the ground here talking to Democrats and they are aware of the importance of our state in this election. Interesting, the Obama campaign has had a volunteer in our rural area for almost 2 months building up the ground game.  McCain? Nada.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 04:14:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The last two summers have been (2.00 / 2)

tough for Obama; I guess he's not much of a summer guy, perhaps the fall is when he turns it up a notch.


by Blazers Edge on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:03:02 PM EST

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 2)

Dog day indeed, Blazer...


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 1)

If he can defeat the Clinton political machine, he can defeat McCain.  I really believe that.  But the general is going to be just as difficult as the primary!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 2)

I almost always agree with you Drew, but not on this one.  The tactics in beating the Clinton machine were very different from what it'll take to beat McCain.  McCain won't pull any punches, while Hillary did.  Hillary's machine was disorganized throughout the primary, but McCain's is starting to solidify around several themes.

I'm afraid lots of folks believe this--that Obama will cruise to victory because of how well he performed against Hillary.  But, now that Obama has moved to the center, his appeal, I'm afraid, is fading.  Again, it's the old, "when faced with a choice between a fake and real Republican, voters will pick the real one," kind of thing.


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 4)

I don't think he'll cruise to victory.  But he didn't defeat Hillary only becuase she had a crappy campaign staff.  Obama saw a message that wasn't being delivered and he people who were not receptive to the front-runner.  He developed a brilliant strategy to reach those people.

What that shows me is that he has good political instincts.  He can deliver a message and inspire people.  That gives me confidence in his ability to win.

But I don't think it's going to be easy and I don't think it's going to be a landslide.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 1)

he has a good political sense for what it takes to defeat a fellow Democrat among Democratic voters.  How good his instincts are for what it takes to beat a Republican aren't clear to me yet.

I think he has the potential to win in a landslide, but only if he gets back to his progressive message and forcefully responds to everything the McCain crowd throws at him.  He can't keep giving ground on policy, and, unfortunately, I don't think he can stay on the high road (from what I read last night, it seems he IS starting to do some negative ads in various states, which will help).


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:27:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 3)

Have you seen this?

Senator Barack Obama has started a sustained and hard-hitting advertising campaign against Senator John McCain in states that will be vital this fall, painting Mr. McCain in a series of commercials as disconnected from the economic struggles of the middle class.

Mr. Obama has begun the drive with little fanfare, often eschewing the modern campaign technique of unveiling new spots for the news media before they run in an effort to win added (free) attention. Mr. Obama, whose candidacy has been built in part on a promise to transcend traditional politics, is running the negative commercials on local stations even as he runs generally positive spots nationally, during prime-time coverage of the Olympics.

The negative spots reflect the sharper tone Mr. Obama has struck in recent days on the stump as he heads into his party's nominating convention in Denver next week, and seem to address the anxiety among some Democrats that Mr. Obama has not answered a volley of attacks by Mr. McCain with enough force.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 2)

Glad to see some here are paying attention. 75% of what is being spent right now by the O camp is on ground operations, which in August don't tend to show up as much as in October and November as that's when the real work is done and completed. It's called laying the groundwork. Anyone comparing what is happenning right now to 2004 is not reading enough outside of this poll driven echo chamber these blogs are becoming.


by Dog Chains on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 2)

I completely agree.  His GOTV operation is going to be superior.  That will probably get him an additional 1-2% in some states.  That won't show up in the polling right now.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

Hey DC, I live in blue state in an area that is so blue is frightening (Capital Hill, I think Jim McDermott yesterday got like 71% of the vote in a multi-tier primary) so I doubt the Obama campaign is pouring big dollars into my area.

So, I am really hoping all the folks in the battleground states ARE seeing that infrastructure build up in progress.

That has been my hope all along, that Axelrod is going to play the GOTV game that has won it for the Repubs, they emptied the churches, Axelrod wants to empty the campuses.

We need a big number in the under 35 crowd, and I hope Axelrod can get them to the polls....


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:47:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

YES!  That's what I was talking about in my parenthetical statement at the end--I read about this last night.


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

Imho, neither Obama nor McCain has been running a good campaign for the past month but McCain's has been better.  Obama's campaign has been, for lack of a better word, light and ineffectual.  McCain has done a better job at defining him than vice-versa.

Obama is overly focused on the issues when he should be focused on McCain.  McCain has this image of being a moderate, a maverick, and a straight talker.   All three are demonstrably false but the narrative comprises the core of his appeal.  Amazingly, Obama appears to be giving him a complete pass.

I never did believe that the New! Improved! Politics was anything else than the Old Politics with a good marketing campaign.

And contrary to those within the Obama echosphere, I always thought the election would be close, within one or two states either way.

But Obama is Wondrous and must not be doubted.  Feh.

I'm still hoping that most voters will decide that Obama has the chops for the job late, like Reagan in 1980.  But that's a fingers-crossed proposition when electing a Democrat this year should be a slam dunk.

Don't blame me, I voted for Hillary


by InigoMontoya on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (1.00 / 5)

The more people get to know Obama, the less they like him. And that includes the strong supporters - who still are supporting him, but have lost the glow. The weak original supporters he is now losing completely, and unless mcCain makes a huge mistake, they won't go back.
You see, there is no there there.
by Marjoriest on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

Brilliant, in depth analysis. I'm shocked you can make a coherent sentence.


by Dog Chains on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

Did they give you your own desk down at McCain's HQ yet, Marge?

Or, did they figure out as we did already, you are SUCH A WHINNER you drive everyone from the room screaming....


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

huh?


by Lolis on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

"there is no there there."

You have done a tremendous job of analyzing your own existence. Congrats.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The truth hurts them but you speak it well (none / 0)

There is no there there.  Well, I won't say "no there" but not enough there at this time to match up well with his opponent who has a lifetime of public service and concurrent perspectives (whether one likes them or not) to draw from those experiences.  Perhaps as many as 18 million of us knew this would happen but the other 18 million refused to listen to us.


by lombard on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's how he will do it. (none / 0)

His volunteers will contact every single unaffiliated or 'unsure' voter in their area and find out what issue(s) are important to them.  They will then get information to that voter about how Obama will handle that issue.

and

His volunteers will call every single Democratic voter in their area and make sure they get to the polls.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 04:21:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He won the Dem primary because of demographics (none / 0)

He added 90% of the black vote to the McGovern/Hart coalition of youth and liberals and he had some help from Hillary hating Republicans and Independents during the first half of the primary season.  That's a pretty tough coalition to overcome.  Even Clinton's 18 million plus votes couldn't do it.


by lombard on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won the Dem primary because of demographics (2.00 / 1)

But he crafted a message to that group.  He raised the money necessary, crafted a message, and developed a strategy.

Look, I don't like the guy.  At all. Not even a little bit.  I'm voting for him because he's the nominee and he is best candidate on the ballot.  But I have to give credit where credit is due.  He came out of nowhere with ZERO name recognition and a thin resume and defeated a tough, well-known candidate.  He's a good politician.  Demographics or not.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, I'll praise him for that (none / 0)

but, the McGovern/Hart coalition will always go giddy over the challenger with the utopian aura over the more familiar establishment candidate and being the first truly viable black candidate seemed to be the main impetus to getting around 90% of the black voters.  My point is that those electoral strengths are severely diluted in a general election campaign.    


by lombard on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:23:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (none / 0)

McCain has to "appeal to his base"

Obama has to "offend the left"

How many times have you heard these talking points? If the Dems keep nominating someone who runs to the right and spits on the base and the Thugs nominate someone who rallies the base WE LOSE.

I was a hard core Clintonista but I think it is the beltway dynamic and not the candidate that is making this happen. It is exactly what Gore did. And he was a fabulous candidate.

Frankly I thought Obama had better advisors. And he might yet start listening to them ;->


by redwagon on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last two summers have been (2.00 / 1)

I think it's going to be more difficult. The GOP has lots of money to spend,, and they will not hesitate to engage in all sorts of dirty tricks that Clinton wouldn't.


by LakersFan on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i a reccing this.. (2.00 / 7)

not because i revel in bad polling data.  but rather because i think your point has great merit - the rah-rah days have long passed and the hard work must begin.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:05:32 PM EST

Re: i a reccing this.. (2.00 / 5)

Agreed.

The Obama team always said "act like we are 10 points down" during the primary.

That had better be the thinking now.....


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:07:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

where are their get out the vote people? (2.00 / 0)

They were EVERYWHERE yesterday. today I saw like three.

[cruising the campus for free food. i'm a mooch]


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're not fooling anybody! (2.00 / 1)

We all know that you're the queen of the dead-enders!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're not fooling anybody! (2.00 / 2)

I will come to the coronation ceremony!


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're not fooling anybody! (2.00 / 1)

Too late!

She pulled a Napoleon and crowned herself.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're not fooling anybody! (1.00 / 4)

The concern trolls are out in force today.  You should take down the stupid propaganda you have masquerading as an election map.

Stop trying to bring down our candidate.

GOBAMA 08


Can I Haz More Palin?
by reebus on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:30:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 2)

Amen!

No question, only straight white men can afford a conservative Supreme Court.
 


by GoldLame on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:06:49 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

Well, we can't afford it either, truth be told.


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How's this? (2.00 / 1)

Only old white rich evangelical males can afford more Alito's and Scalia's on the court.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 2)

I dunno, they'll likely trample our civil liberties too.


by Cincinnatus on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:10:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 3)

First, I'm with you Drew.  We need to be focusing on the bad news, rather that sitting around assuming the election is already won.  It isn't.

Now, there are a number of weak spots in this electoral map, and the VP pick may make all the difference.  For example, if Ohio flips to the Democrats, we win.  That can happen with a Clinton VP pick, but probably not with Sebelius, Kaine, Bayh, nor anyone else.  If Viriginia flips, we also win (but with a smaller margin).  This might possibly happen if Kaine is picked, but I doubt it.  

Anyway, while I think it's important to start thinking about the possibility of losing (and gearing up for a bigger fight to prevent it), I also think it's a little early to be too concerned--wait three more days.  Once the VP picks are in, then we'll have a better feel for how things look


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:12:52 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 3)

I agree with the first part.

But I'm starting to think that if we try and add a VP that acknowledges Obama's "weaknesses," then Obama stops being Obama.  I obviously wasn't on the Hopemobile during the primaries, but I'm now of the school of thought that says that we should ride it all the way to the White House.

At this point, I say take another change agent--Sebelius or Kaine.  Adding Biden or Clinton makes the ticket change light.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 6)

But, if polls are showing McCain winning on the Economy, you put Hillary on the ticket and let the chips fall where they may.

No one would be a better messenger of how much change we need in the economy then Hillary, or how much worse it can actually get, with McCain being Bush, and Phil Gramm as Dick Cheney, pulling the economic strings.

And, I'm STILL holding some hope for Wes.

He's an outsider to me.


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:20:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 5)

I see your point.  But at the same time, don't you think that Obama has made his own ticket "change light" with the backpeddling on FISA, the public financing flip, etc.?  Those moves, along with the other well-hashed moves to center, have me nervous about his prospects for winning based on the change theme.  I think he either needs to pick someone like Clinton to unify the party, or he will have to get back in full force on the changemobile.  The hopemobile I don't think is going to cut it.

Don't get me wrong, I'll vote for Obama regardless of who he picks for the VP slot (well, actually, I'll have a hard time if he picks a Republican, but I don't think that's going to happen, and I'd still probably vote for him, just not as enthusiastically).


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:23:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 2)

I think that compromise was always going to be part of governing.  I didn't like the shifts on FISA and off-shore oil drilling, but that is the reality of governing.  If he can spin it as finding common ground and making compromises when necessary, then I think it's okay.

So I'm still on the change agent thing today.  Yesterday, I was all Biden.  And I might be all Biden again later tonight.  Who knows?


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:27:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

This is a good point.  What I would like to see him do is say something like:

"I'm willing to compromise on some issues, but this needs to be reciprocated by Republicans.  As you can see, I'm willing to give a little on offshore drilling, because this is what the public seems to want.  At the same time, however, the Republicans need to give a little on FISA (or whatever), because this is also what the public wants."

If he does this, it looks like compromise and not straightforward capitulation or change in position.  It also clarifies who is truly willing to compromise and who is purely an ideologue and obstructionist.  Unfortunately, too often, Democrats don't make this message; instead, they just compromise, and it looks like capitulation.


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:47:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

umm- (none / 0)

thats triangulating.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

let me clarify that I would, under no circumstances, vote for McCain, even if HE picked Hillary as his running mate!  I like Hillary, but my belief that she should be his VP pick isn't based on my like for her.  It's based on the fact that the party is split, and she brings a lot of enthusiasm that I think would shore up his ticket.


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

"don't you think that Obama has made his own ticket "change light" with the backpeddling on FISA, the public financing flip, etc.?  

Nope, disagree. I disliked the FISA vote, but it was neccesary, or he would have been hammered relentlessly down south.

The public finaning thing was NOT a flip, McCain played the media like a top on that one.

I don't think the people that maybe moving to McCain were affected by those ideas?

IF FISA is your issue, you move to McCain?

Not likely.....

But, I agree on the changemobile, the problem is, the press sells McCain as someone different, they ignore his ties to Gramm, to all the traditional NEOCON machine running his campaign.

The Repubs got lucky, and not of their own wishing.

Most of them hated McCain, but he was their only shot, and it's going to be scary the rest of the way out.


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

Changes to Fisa are arguably necessary.

Telecom immunity in the FISA bill - NOT NECESSARY


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

He's going to be hammered down south anyway.  My family all lives in Arkansas and Oklahoma, and they are adamant about not voting for Obama (I'm still working on my mother, though).  And the polls show my experience with southerners is not an aberration.  I think it would be better not to have given in on FISA--it would have solidified his support in the rest of the country, I think.

I agree that a move to McCain in response to the FISA vote would be stupid.  BUT, consider it like this:  why does Obama put voters in a position of choosing between the lesser of two evils?  One could make the argument you're making everytime he capitulates or backpedals.  He'll always be marginally better than McCain.  But, he erodes the support of his progressive base by forcing us into a lesser-of-two-evils position.  

In brief, I want to vote FOR Obama and not just AGAINST McCain.  And, for the undecideds out there who don't want to cast a vote just AGAINST someone, they need to have a clear distinction between the candidates.  Each time Obama backpedals, he looks more like McCain, and so he doesn't appear to offer anything different or new.

Now, how much has Obama backpedaled?  I think only on a few issues, but what matters is how the public sees it.  And there's already a theme out there suggesting that Obama is backpedaling all over the place, true or not.


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (none / 0)

I just want to comment on your analysis of Ohio and Virginia and how they are affected by the VP choice.

Sebelius would actually help a great deal in Ohio. Her roots run deep there (she is the daughter of a popular ex-governor.) To suggest that she does not move the needle at all there is probably inaccurate. In addition she would also be likely to connect strongly with people in Western PA and other parts of Appalachia.

As to Virginia, I do not think Kaine helps in VA that much, but I do think we have a strong chance to win the State. Mark Warner is insanely popular there and his Senate race combined with a strong ground game could turn that state, which has been trending Democratic for a while now, blue.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:40:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 5)

"I NEED him to win."

We all do. Not only Americans, but the world, too.

And complacency is never good and if this polling only serves to shake us out of our complacency, it's good for the Democratic party.

Knowing that polling shows Obama will lose in Ohio makes me thankful I'm going to be there instead of the predictably blue northeast, and makes me want to work twice as hard for him, there.

If he was winning, even if it was only with a shaky lead of 51 - 49 or some such thing, I doubt I'd be nearly as motivated.


by pomology on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:13:05 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

"Knowing that polling shows Obama will lose in Ohio makes me thankful I'm going to be there instead of the predictably blue northeast, and makes me want to work twice as hard for him, there."

The polling shows that he is trailing among the 800-1000 people they asked, no more, no less.


by Dog Chains on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:19:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (2.00 / 1)

RCP is shading Ohio red based a poll average lead of one percentage point for McCain.  And that's based on three polls, one of which has McCain ahead.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He can win Ohio (none / 0)

But to do so he has to swallow his pride and reach out to Clinton supporters. He also needs to adjust his economic policy to support good paying jobs in the US.

He can do it, he just has to try.


by Betsy McCall on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:29:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm wearing a skirt suit. (2.00 / 2)

Can I ignore the warning?


by Mobar on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:20:22 PM EST

Re: I'm wearing a skirt suit. (2.00 / 1)

My bad!  I should have been more inclusive.  I'll fix that right now.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm wearing a skirt suit. (2.00 / 0)

Once again Drew you fail to include other pollsters, and one with a much better track record:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

They have it Obama 281 McCain 256


by venician on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm wearing a skirt suit. (2.00 / 6)

I don't see why it's bad to be scared and work harder and donate more.

If Drew was saying "OMG THE WORLDS GONNA END! OBAMA SUCKS AND CANT DO ANYTHING AND OMG WE NEED HILLARY OR WERE ALL GONNA DIE!" you might have a point.

But what he's saying is "Nothing is guaranteed so work hard for Obama."

It's not a bad message. It's an important one regardless of whether current polling shows Obama is going to win or not.


by pomology on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, gosh... (2.00 / 3)

...according to 538's nos., Barack and Michelle should be picking out new curtains for the West Wing right now!

Gee...281 to 256....wow!

Sure sounds like grounds to be glib, smug and righteously trampling all over souls that are being prudent...like this diarist!

Commenter left out the part where they call diarist a PUMA and an Obama troll!

(BTW...This is an EXCELLENT diary!

Rec'd!)


by bobswern on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, gosh... (none / 0)

Excellent diary???????????? An excellent diary about the latest polls should have included more then ONE poll. It's what this diarist has done in the past with his chickend little posts. But thank you for your continued dedication to electing a Democratic to the presidency.


by venician on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh venician.... (none / 0)

You know you love me!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh venician.... (none / 0)

More then you know. :}


by venician on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 03:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fabulous! (none / 0)

Now if only zerosumgame would pay a visit, each of my four favorite trolls (well three, because Glaurung is clearly BN's sockpuppet) will have visited my diary.  Is ZSG's rock near yours?  If so, would you be a dear and tell him I have a diary for him to troll?  I don't think I can wait until my China diary this evening to be accused of supporting oppression in China.  

Thanks!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits (none / 0)

While I agree it is far better to run thinking we are behind, than to assume victory. RCP is great for the news not so great for polling or analysis .

Both Pollster and Fivethirtyeight still have Obama up on the electoral map.

Yes this has been a bad several weeks, but it was always going to be tighter no matter who the nominee than most people thought.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:28:33 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED (2.00 / 0)

rec'd, by the way.  We need to keep up with the electoral map on a daily or at least weekly basis.


by slynch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:41:41 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED (none / 0)

There is no such thing as "the electoral map." There are many which are different at times.


"I don't know too much about Sarah Palin, but perhaps that's the good news." -- GOP Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison
by Obama44 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:36:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you surprised by this moment? (2.00 / 8)

I, for one, am not.

It was bound to. There was always going to be a moment when McCain edged up in the polls - he's a formidable candidate in many ways, and the republican base is (unlike the democratic base) good at unity in adversity.

But let's look at the campaign, pre Convention.
Has anything substantial changed?

1. If you're going to be behind, when is the best time? Mid August? Mid September? Mid October?

2. If you're going to spend all your advertising money, is it best now or later?

3. If you're taking on an opponent, and want to know their plan of attack, when is the best time to take a holiday?

I'm not an unqualified optimist. In fact, I think Obama is such a radical departure for an American President, that I'm amazed he's stayed this far ahead so long.

My humble opinion is,I'm glad this has happened before the convention - at least potential troublemakers will have faced the enormity of what they're doing. And it will focus everyone on the real battle.


by duende on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:43:49 PM EST

Thank you all for reading! (2.00 / 3)

It's been fun.  I have to get to school and lock myself in the library for ten hours or so.  Why I decided to start my PhD at age 32, I'll never know.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:43:53 PM EST

And please! (2.00 / 1)

Everyone please be kind to Blue Neponset.  Remember that trolls are people, too.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This isn't about you (none / 0)

The turn in the race has been because of current events.  Obama has made some mistakes in the last couple of weeks and McCain has taken advantage of those.  

Pointing out bad polling in daily tracking polls in July has nothing to do with what is happening now.  Please don't pretend that current events prove your "warnings" were justified.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:47:05 PM EST

So how's the weather today? (2.00 / 1)

We were supposed to have a hurricane yesterday, but it barely even sprinkled.  And today, it's overcast.  I'm going to go ahead and ride my bike to the library and hope it doesn't rain.

Have a nice day, BN!  It was nice of you to stop by.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED (2.00 / 3)

I don't usually rec poll diaries or bad news, but I saw that polling data in the paper this morning and my heart sank. I've been through enough elections to know that this thing is not in the bag by any means. There is a lot of work to be done, and Democrats better toughen themselves up because this is going to get ugly.


by LakersFan on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:52:33 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED (2.00 / 1)

It's a close race with over a dozen swing states and the Conventions haven't even started.

Why, exactly, would anyway get worked up over this? Talk to me in September.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:54:00 PM EST

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED (none / 0)

>


by Glaurung on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:04:21 PM EST

Blue Neponset's back! (none / 0)

I missed you so much.

So how is the weather in Trollville?  It's been overcast here for the last few days.  We were supposed to have a hurricane yesterday, but it ended up passing to the south.  I guess I shouldn't complain about it being overcast, then.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Neponset's back! (none / 0)

That isn't me.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Neponset's back! (none / 0)

I'm flattered that the McPumas think I'm you, but it really just shows again that their mouths are bigger than their brains.


by Glaurung on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 07:37:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Vacation? (2.00 / 1)

Does anyone else suspect the dip in the polls might be almost entirely attributable to the Georgia situation--which most likely will NOT be the first thing in people's minds on November 4th--and the fact that Obama was on vacation and almost completely out of the spotlight for a week? I have a feeling he would bounce back up a few points over the next week or so, even if the convention wasn't next week.

Also, I just want to chime in and say this former Hillary-hater would love to get a text message announcing her for VP. I want to see Obama make an unexpected surprise pick, not Bayh or Biden or Kaine or any of these other people that have been talked about so much over the past few days. I want a "game-changer" VP pick like Hillary, or Clark, or Mark Warner or Jim Webb.


by Hatch on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:06:39 PM EST

I saw the LA Times graphic... (2.00 / 1)

I was so shocked by those numbers that my glasses fell off my nose.

And I don't even wear glasses!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:08:03 PM EST

Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (1.77 / 9)

because of what these polls have been showing. Obama is doing fine amongst independents, he just has a problem with Democrats.

And who's fault is that? The woman who would be VP. Flame me all you want, but it was pretty clear that Clinton had lost long before she ended her campaign. I don't care that she didn't end it, but she sought to destroy Obama down to the last week of her campaign.

The Florida/Michigan bullshit was meant to delegitimize him, which they have done. Clinton made it ok for Dems to say they won't support Obama. Sure, she supports him and urges her supporters to do the same, but she's the one who gave them the excuses not too. Not experienced, hasn't crossed the C-in-C threshold, cheat with FL/MI. All of those have carried over until now.

Obama has a problem with Dems because of Hillary Clinton. She made a decision to burn bridges, she turned down being VP with what she did, and now she is supposed to be the savior?

Sorry, no. Obama needs to pick the best candidate for VP and then make the case to Dems and show them what's at stake.

That's Obama's task ahead.


by BlueGAinDC on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:09:30 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (2.00 / 1)

I do wonder if there is a 2012 strategy going on. Hillary's brother met with McCain campaign folks just recently, and Alegre is claiming that Harold Ickes is talking to delegates about the "magic number."


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (2.00 / 4)

"and Alegre is claiming that Harold Ickes is talking to delegates about the "magic number."

Alegre talks to the furniture at this point, they tell her sweet stories of all the supers flipping upon viewing the Whitey Tape....


Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (none / 0)

Good point.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (none / 0)

ROFLMFAO


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (2.00 / 4)

I'll never understand the Hillary haters.
by zenful6219 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:42:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (none / 0)

Why? Did you not pay attention to the campaign?

You know, when Clinton started to sound like McCain? When Clinton started trying to make FL and MI an issue of disenfranchisement and claimed Obama was blocking revotes, etc.?

Us "Hillary haters" don't like her because of the campaign she ran. What's not to get?

Now is not the time to put someone on the ticket that caused the problem we are trying to resolve.


by BlueGAinDC on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (2.00 / 2)

And why would Hillary want to be on the ticket when Obama inferred or even said (can't remember) that she had bad judgment?


by Dari on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (none / 0)

Good, then we can all agree there's no reason for Hillary to be the veep.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (1.00 / 4)

Obama has a problem with the Dems because of Obama!  

When you excoriate, belittle, and throw out the base of the Party--working class Whites, Latinos, Asians, and women and men over 40 -- you will get the current results.  This kind of Party realignment has consequences.  

Obama needs to figure out a way of winning without the above demographics--as he has promised to the Party Elders (i.e. the SDs).


by trixta on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (2.00 / 1)

Interesting analysis. And if Obama had excoriated, belittled, and thrown out those groups, you might be right- but as we know, nothing like that occurred.

Obama is beating McCain among these groups.

Obama's problem has nothing to do with demographics, and everything to do with former Clinton supporters that are still angry about the primary and have turned that into a need to rationalize why they are siding with McCain. They can't trust him, he's too inexperienced.

But what would you expect, Hillary made those same arguments to her supporters during the primary and convinced them and now a big chunk of them don't believe her now when she says the exact opposite (which she hasn't really).

If Obama picks Hillary and that helps him, it will just be Hillary voters voting for her on the ticket. Personally, I'd rather him actually convince those voters, so that when he wins the White House he actually has solid support, instead of just a bunch of people holding their noses and voting for him.


by BlueGAinDC on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton should not be VP precisely (none / 0)

You are saying only black people will vote for him. He is garnering above 40% in the polls. As far as I know black people only make up 10% of the country.  And working class whites haven't been part of the base of the democratic party since DixieCrats turned republican. What kind of progressive even talks this way?  


"They are ever so much nicer at Tiffany's!"
by epiphany on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You Are Spewing Complete Garbage (none / 0)

Give me one example... one... of him belittling Latinos.  You can't.  And guess what?  He's doing great among Latinos according to most polling.  Turns out you can't reduce a diverse group to a single demographic and proclaim them one politician's fife.  Such notions are the results of the HRC campain's lesser moments and have no basis in reality.  

OK. Now, how has he offended Asians?  Oops.  Nothing.

Men over 40?  Oh, wait.  He's over 40.

Working class whites?  Mmm.  Not so much.  Maybe Appalachian working class whites.  Maybe.

Women?  Well, shit, he's polling well among women, too.  Turns out most women know that beating a female candidate in an election is not inherently sexist.

You have nothing.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold on to Your Pantsuits UPDATED (2.00 / 2)

Obama's winning this in a landslide.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:29:55 PM EST

Remember voting machines and theft (2.00 / 1)

... pure downright Republican theft of elections.  Close polling data makes for that scenario.  Remember Kerry won the exit polls in Ohio, but lost the state.  So, just getting it closer makes it easier for the thieves to steal again and they WILL!  At least, that's MHO.


by Southern Mouth on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:35:07 PM EST

Re: Remember voting machines and theft (none / 0)

I have to agree with you. However, I believe this election has already been decided. We just haven't voted yet.
by zenful6219 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]